I had a wander over to A Voice for Manginas to have a check of what might be going on in the Men's Rights Movement. It turns out that some drongo troll decided that they were gonna expose the identity of a couple of fairly prominent MGTOW guys: Stardusk and Barbarossaaaa. The mess somehow ended up at Paul Elam's feet. He threw out a "not me" post - which I believe, 'cause why would he bother, he has enough shit on his plate running his site and activism and stuff already:
Doxing MGTOW Incident Unleashes MGTOW+ Fury at AVfM
It seems to me that going from "this one fucktard did this" to saying "AVfM (and all MHRA's) is involved" is a massive stretch of imagination from somebody. I'm not sure who did it, and I care so tremendously much that I can't be arsed trying to figure out where that lot came from and what it's all about. It's basically another tempest in a teapot that'll blow over eventually.
It did make me think, though. I vaguely remember seeing references to AVfM having a love-hate relationship with the MGTOW's, though I'm not certain of where I read that. It also made me wonder about the Christian/Churchian weirdness going on with regard to despising MGTOW. I have what I think may be the reason for the head-butting. It effectively comes down to basic ideological value differences.
The current system of female to male interaction (marriage) has the following mentality: "You will obey or you will be forced to obey". Which is of course no choice at all for married men. End result: you will obey, either fuckin' way. Slavery.
MGTOW on the other hand reverse this system into a male to female interaction with the following mentality: "Obey or fuck off". Which is of course a real choice for any woman. They want to hang around a MGTOW, they can obey - or fuck off. End result: they actually have a choice, unlike the female to male interaction of marriage and no choice. Freedom.
(Note that any man who goes into marriage these days is instantly forced into the female to male interaction. A mans' only real choices these days are: bachelor or marriage, freedom or slavery. So logically, no married man can ever be a MGTOW because he has no power or choices - she is the one with all the power and choices. You poor bastards are toast, I hope you can get out of it with minimal damage.)
Which shines a light onto the basic ideological differences between MRAs (including MHRAs like AVfM) and MGTOWs:
* MRAs still believe in the system of marriage etc and are asking the government (and society) to please tweak things to make them fairer for men
* MGTOWs recognize the system is fundamentally broken, the government is kissing the pussy of the strong empowered womyn, and nobody is gonna do shit to change things because that'd derail the gravy-train and piss off all the female voters who let the government hogs get their snouts into the trough
So what's happening is one segment of women's slaves are getting all agitated and throwing a hangi (a big-ass dinner party) for each other and pleading with their slavemasters to please, please, please be nicer and fairer to them. While another segment of women's slaves is quietly putting a few things into a backpack and slipping off the plantation into the darkness of the night, walking along the moonlit trails to see where the things go, and wondering if there's some nice sights and good fishing on the way.
Segment One of the slaves is looking aghast at Segment Two and going "you're cool guys come back, fucking bastard runaways, we really need you, goddamn fucking deserters, we love you" etc like some bipolar fucked-up mess. Segment Two of the slaves is looking back with vague bemusement at Segment One and thinking "what the fuck is wrong with you, begging your masters to make your burden easier - come join me catching fish".
So there, now, I've just taken a steaming dump all over the entire mentality of the MRA/MHRA movement. Also the Churchians because they also believe that the system as-is can be fixed. And anyone else who basically thinks that someone with power is going to fuckin' take pity on them and give them a break. Especially given that Team Womyn™ like, like, like it the way things are: they can have their kiddies, frivorce with cash and prizes, fuck-a-da bad-boys, and be supported by their slave-men.
They're creaming it.
This lot is also why I tend to refer to A Voice for Men as "A Voice for Mangina's" - because they're trying to "ask nicely" and "raise awareness" (ie whining, bitching and nagging like women do). The problem is that the assholes they're trying to ask nicely don't give a damn because Team Womyn™ is giving them a green light to go whole hog at the trough. Mama and her ass-kissing mangina toady's have spoken and das guberment has listened and obeyed.
Whereas the MGTOWers are just looking at it, realizing it's not gonna get fixed 'cause Team Womyn™ doesn't want it fixed, and saying "fuck this bullshit I'm gonna go fish". Whether or not a woman shows up is cool: obey or fuck off.
I would say that there are probably irreconcilable differences between the two mentalities. Nobody's gonna be changing the MGTOWs, they've (rationally) chosen their path. Nobody's gonna be changing the MRAs, they still have the (irrational) hope that their path can be fixed.
Now bugger off and let me fish - and think - in peace.