Friday 5 June 2015

Luke, I Am Your Snake-Oil Salesman - RooshV

So I found the videos and time to watch Roosh and Bar Bar and Sandman. It's interesting, the chutzpah of Roosh. "I am the father of the manosphere" and "I created Roissey and Rollo Thomassi" and "how dare you". While I haven't really seen that people have turned on him - with that attitude I wouldn't be at all surprised. He ain't helping the process none.

A part of growing up and becoming a mature adult is rebelling against your parents. That helps you to fly from the nest and get out the door on your own. The amount of venom involved depending upon various factors - I sometimes think that a big part of it is how controlling your parents are. The manosphere seems to be going through a growing-pain, thus the bullshit going down at the moment, thus the "backlash" between various parts of it.

At any rate, here is Roosh, in the video which seems to have sparked the drama (to paraphrase: "this is just drama, I've seen it before in the past ten years, it'll go and be back again"). I think that the most peculiar part is the appeals to emotion and authority - plus the drama that he's causing using his shaming language and personal attacks against those who he seems to feel are against him:

The bit about him being the father of the manosphere is a hoot - last I saw, Strauss and Mystery and Tyler Durden would be more accurately the fathers of the manosphere. At least, the PUA part of it, as it were. My softback copy of The Game was printed in 2005, the events in it must have started around 2001 (hardback would be printed 2004, minimum a year for writing the book, and it supposedly spanned 2 years of time).

Hell, Tony's Lay Guide was around before then: in 2000 it went more commercial, prior to that you can pick up the free copy. There's plenty of archives of it out there. It was what triggered Neil Strauss to go PUA and see what the hell was going on in that subculture. So that said, Tony was the "father of the Manosphere". If we really needed a specific father to point out, 15+ years down the track.

Make all the claims he wants, it doesn't change the demonstrable fact that Roosh got in early and milked it for what he could, as it were. Now he's pulling a Tyler Durden, reinventing himself and trying to milk it for more. You made your mark, you catered to a certain segment of the Manosphere, and you have helped a certain subset of people get what they want: sex with lots of good-looking girls.

No problems. About any of that. Just don't try to be overdramatic about it. Or get pissy when parts of the Manosphere grows in directions that you don't seem to like - you never controlled it and you never will, whatever you say. It's bigger than you. Admit it and fuckin' deal with it like an adult.

So. Neomasculinity. As Sandman basically said: funny how it looks a bit like MGTOW 1.0, from the No-Ma'am website.

Like Bar Bar, I must ask: if Men are supposed to become neomasculine - new masculinity or new men - and follow the older, traditional ways - where's the women for them?

Are they supposed to be spontaneously created out of the ether?

What, all these sluts (married or not) that the PUAs have been fucking up the ass and doing ass-to-mouth with will suddenly get themselves a spontaneous case of Born Again Virgin? Their mental and emotional brokenness will suddenly heal? They will magically go from well-sullied whores to perfectly virginal, loyal, and loving Unicorns in a heartbeat?
Roosh bewails that his beloved Polish girls have turned as shitty and depraved as Western women - a process he helped along with his various books, giving Western men the idea to try their luck there and other places overseas. I distinctly remember reading a post where he remarked about them (Polish girls) going out nightclubbing, their fickleness, drunkenness, etc - just like the good time girls women I see down the bars in New Zealand. Now he expects these (in fact, any) girls to spontaneously change and Woman Up for these New Men that he is creating.

In the end he's just Creating a Better Beta.

In the end he's just catering to the feminine imperative.

In the end he's just making a better Man - and then saying to those Men "man up and marry those sluts". He hasn't changed the women's behavior and mentality any.

There is another thing about this that neither Sandman nor Bar Bar caught, too - I don't know why. The most basic thing about this whole Neomasculinity bushwah going on. That is: it doesn't address the fundamental fuckups in the system. That it's still way too easy for women to shaft Men, if they get bored or want to step out or find someone more to their liking.

It seems more and more like Roosh is just looking to make a few more bucks off some new crop of hapless, naive Men who've been hurt already. Go ahead, sell more snake-oil - I'm sure that someone will buy it. You're not addressing the basic disease, you're not lancing the boil in the system, you're not administering antibiotics, you're not sucking-and-spitting the basic poison which laces society these days.

You can make "new" Men. It doesn't make these "new" Men invulnerable. It doesn't make these "new" Men able to survive the system currently in place. Sure, it might make their chances of success with women higher. Sure, it might make their chances of a successful long-term marriage with women higher. Yet they can still get shafted by Team Womyn™ whenever she desires, for little or no reason.

The MRAs and MGTOWs are attempting, each in their own ways, to kick the system as-it-is into cardiac-arrest. To address the imbalances in the system. To slap it upside the head and correct the nuttiness. This attempt of Neomasculinity - while interesting - does nothing to correct the system as-it-is. It simply appears to be an attempt to make a socially-acceptable "PUA-Lite" from which more money can be made.

As for some of the rabid fanboi's in the PUAsphere, once more ragging on the MGTOW (go see Vox Day's blog if you really give a flying fuck about this bullshit). I see vast amounts of shaming language and personal attacks and rampant emotionalism. (Emotionalism like a woman having a shit-fit? Hmmm!)

They are still unable to conceive of a Man who doesn't think that a vagina is the end-all of man's approval and worth in this world. Because all their life revolves around is getting laid. The fact that anyone else chooses differently seems to make them insecure about their choices in life - because they may have yet to understand that they have no real desires of their own, that they are still following someone else's script, for someone else's profit.
Hopefully they will eventually be able to step back and say like an adult: "Okay. I might not agree with your choices, however I'm not going to give you shit about your choices. In fact, I will give you a thumbs-up for making your choices and sticking by them. Good on you." When they can do that, this brouhaha will (hopefully) die down and we can get back to looking at the problem which caused us all to end up out here in the first place: the bloody gynocentric society we were born in.

That said, even while this crap and brouhaha is going down. To all you PUAs: may your notch-count of sexy chicks climb. I view you Men as a filtering mechanism. You filter out the mentally- and emotionally-damaged women so that other Men don't have to. They just have to look at the girls you fuck and avoid them like the plague. Thank you for that.

I will leave you with Sandman's and Bar Bar's videos on this little brouhaha:


  1. I have been growing more unease about Roosh as time goes by and stopped reading him some time ago. Vox obviously sees him as an ally in the fight to save western civilization and so is hoping on board because the cliché of the reformed player into something more is perhaps too tempting for Vox not to latch on to (considering that he fits that archetype).

    I read the snippet on evolution Vox had up and was utterly unconvinced by it, had it been an atheist or SJW, Vox would have torn it apart.

    And I don't see Neo masculinity as MGTOW 1.0, I see it as a full return to putting men back in the harness and I am with Rollo: The truth is the truth and what is important is providing the truth so that men may live their lives with their eyes wide open, and make their own choices which is what freedom is all about, Any attempt to direct men's lives is obviously a step away from that (to put it nicely).

    I will say right now that the dénouement that is going to come with Roosh is going to devastating for the manosphere.

    As for all the tradcons, and religious fellows, and especially the reformed bad boy "sigmas" and players that now call men that don't play by the rules they want men to follow as "cowards" I mock them for it right now. They can take their "white feather" and jump on the grenade themselves.

    1. If they desire they can "occupy" several grenades as much as they want. Pins optional. I no longer can be bothered to juggle, myself: too much effort for too little reward.

    2. A recent commenter at Uncabob had a good expression for it: "mancage". Neomasculinity is another one variant of mancage, with slightly more decorative bars than preexisting ones.

  2. For the PUA'S "I got my mine my 100+ now it is time to try to heal myself" what a joke.

    1. The damaged cry out to the damaged, getting together to create more damaged offspring.

      The problem is most Men don't realize the damaged goods out there, nor the damage they do to themselves by getting involved with that crap. It's considered "normal" these days.

  3. Heh, Vox Day has shot himself in the foot here: "[...] other high-caliber thinkers like Roosh [...]" Translation: "he agrees with me, therefore he is a high-caliber thinker". Snort. If they both are thinkers of a similar caliber, then it rather speaks badly of Vox than highly of Roosh.

    1. When I think upon it, Roosh is just a more successful version of the"married man sex life" guy:

      "Things aren't the way you want in life, here's a purple pill to make you feel better for the low low price of ...."

    2. I called Roosh, the Rational Male (sic) and Roissy right from the beginnng. Vox Day took a bit longer. They're basically all snake-oil salesmen, except they believe their own B.S.

    3. Roosh a high caliber thinker?! Maybe on the subject of getting dick into pussy. That shows some severe cognitive dissonance on Vox's part. Life's a helluva lot more involved than that.

      Gilgamesh, Bob, I agree. The most successful salesman has to be someone who believes their own crap.

    4. From my point of view, this post looks rather rational and well-documented:
      I find it more convincing that the creation myth from Genesis, for example.