I tend to view them as being predominantly weak and damaged individuals of low socio-sexual rank who would probably sacrifice their oft-expressed principles in a minute if the right woman presents herself in the right way.
The PUA obsession with socio-sexual ranks - which is why Vox threw it out there. He invented the multi-tiered ranking of socio-sexual ranks: Alpha, Sigma, Beta, Gamma, Omega, ad-nauseum. Make any man who disagrees with this opinion a socio-sexual loser, both in his mind and in the minds of those who read his blog. A good attack upon potential opponents (anyone who *might* disagree with him) from the get-go.
Regarding sacrificing our oft-expressed principles - you didn't read the memo. It's right up here on the no-ma'am website (paragraph four):
And, practitioners of game also should know the rule of “it’s my way or the highway, Toots!” and that any man who doesn’t want to be ruined by woman has to learn to say no without bothering to explain, and say it often… no… No… NO… NO!!!Vox, you are arguing from a footing of wrong/incorrect information. Please, get the background information right before you go making blanket statements. I am giving you the benefit of the doubt, that it is accidental ignorance rather than deliberate ignorance or deliberate dissemination of misinformation - whether to feed some personal agenda or simply to get a lot off pissed-off men jumping over your website for the traffic-count and notoriety.
MGTOW are not PUA. MGTOW never said they were. MGTOW simply aren't jumping through hoops just for the opportunity to drop a fuck into some damaged girl's vagina.
Next, Vox throws out some more pre-emptive shaming tactic statements:
Here is why: a man who is genuinely doing his own thing doesn't make a big deal about it. If I'm not going to read a book, I just don't read it. I don't loudly proclaim to all and sundry the fact of my not-reading it. I don't know any man who makes a habit of announcing that today, again, he is going to refrain from having sex or engaging in romantic relationships with chickens, or indeed, poultry of any kind. The very act of the self-identification as a Man Not-Reading a Book or a Man Not Having Sex with Chickens is an indication that everything is not in psychological good order.
I have no clue why he dropped that into his talking about saving civilization. Again it is a blanket attack upon the MGTOW (interesting conflation of MGTOW with men not having sex with chickens - wtf twisted nuttiness is that about). He appears to be stating that MGTOW are being attention-whores online. Funny, you could state the same about any blogger - especially any blogger who has a large audience - including himself, an author.
For example, here are The Minimalists. Following Vox's argument, because they are saying what they're doing/thinking online, they are crazy. Taken to a logical next step: following Vox's argument, because he is saying what he's doing/thinking online, *he* is crazy.
Further, take note of the shaming tactic of flat-out stating that men who identify as MGTOW are psychologically damaged (aka insane). Another good leftist-style attacking statement, attempting to force a man who wants to disagree onto the back foot and prove that he's sane and not insane - the implication being that if he doesn't attempt to prove it, he is automatically insane and therefore his statements are automatically null-and-void. QED.
All readers should keep in mind and remember: this is *one*man's*opinion* of a general movement. One that he doesn't identify with. One that I have already established, he has not read the memo about (qv above).
As for those who claim I am somehow attempting to shame such men, what would be the point of that? It's a factual observation, nothing more. If a man is so delicate as to remove himself from the world due to the bad behavior of a woman or three, he's not likely to be of any use in the upcoming battle for the West.
What would be the point of shaming such men? Yet you are doing it! What would be the point of mentioning MGTOW *at*all* given the overall shaming tone of your blog-post? Your only point in mentioning them in an article about civilization is to flat-out shame them. If someone buys-in to your shaming tactics, then they will become predisposed towards thinking as you do. That is the point of attempting to shame such men: they think like you do or they are shameful. Good attempt.
There is always a risk in doing anything worthwhile and sometimes the odds are stacked against you. That is the way things are; it is the way things have always been. The hero is the man who runs toward the sound of gunfire, not the man who runs away from it.Certainly there is risk in doing something worthwhile. Certainly the odds are often stacked against you. Note that it's running towards the sound of gunfire, assessing the situation, and then dealing with it. Not running blindly into gunfire and getting killed like some kind of sheep. Vox seems to think that the situation has not been assessed by the MGTOW, that MGTOW are incapable of thinking for themselves.
I'm not even going to attempt to pull up statistics - I've done them to death in previous posts. As have others across the so-called Manosphere. Whether MGTOW or not - for various reasons. Nice sub-rosa "man-up" message attempt, by the way.
You have very obviously missed the point. MGTOW has nothing to do with saving or not saving civilization. Its about recognizing and not getting involved with damaged girls. If you don't get involved with damaged girls, you don't get your life (effort, time) screwed up and clawed away and wasted by some NPD/BPD type. This is most women this days: highly narcissistic.
At any rate, Vox's post has occupied a miniscule portion of my mind off and on for the last couple of days. The realization has slowly come to mind:
Sure, back 50-100 years ago it might have been worth putting in some effort to chase a woman. She would have appreciated it, she wouldn't have been completely batshit crazy 90+% of the time, etc. Children would have resulted with great ease and pleasure on both parties parts. Next generation assured, the growth of civilization assured.
These days? Nah. I save my interest for the (very) few women who show up and actively show me - very overtly! - that they are interested. And that they are not crazy. The rest of my time, energy, and money is focused entirely on myself, like any good old-fashioned selfish bastard of a man should do.
So, Vox states that men should still attempt to salvage civilization. I have a counter-argument.
Saving our current civilization is not really worth it on the whole.
* when a civilization is acknowledged to be throwing at least 50% of married men under the bus via divorce, destroying their lives, damaging the next generation psychologically, etc
* when a civilization has demonstrated zero interest in reducing the incidence and destructiveness of divorce
* when a civilization has demonstrated a preferential willingness to support single mommies over more-productive family life
That civilization needs to salvage its men. In proving that it cares for its men - it's children - the next generation - then it will *earn*the*right*to*be*preserved* as a civilization.
Otherwise, it needs to die. Just like a crack-whore welfare mother who steals from my pocket (via tax-theft and child-support) to feed her habit, fuck bad-boy men, and produce more dependent children into poverty conditions - while she parasitizes off my hard-earned money.
Remember that money is like everything else around you: it is a product of your blood, sweat, and time. The chair you sit in, the screen you read this on, the walls around you, the roof over your head, the clothing you wear, the food you eat. It is all human effort, amplified by the technology that we as a species (though mostly white men) have built up over millennia of toil, thought, and constant struggle and improvement.
Too bad Vox. IMO you greatly missed the mark on this one. Plus I think that you lost the respect of quite a few people, including me.
But then, in your eyes I'm nothing more than another MGTOW. I'm of such low socio-sexual rank that you feel free to simply despise me and automatically discount my and any other MGTOW's thoughts, experiences, and life as being of no worth.
I wonder when the kill-squads will be heading my way. My crime: hatethought.
Edit: An unworthy thought. I wonder how many of Vox's reading-demographic are women.