However I got to thinking. Why the fuck all this MGTOW hate from the Manosphere?
Since this is tequila-fueled, you're just gonna have to deal with it if it's a bit incoherent. Will do my best - however I sure as fuck ain't gonna be polished in this one.
Sure, Aaron Clarey is 100% correct: there's some bullshit here in MGTOW-land (he figured that something like 20% are frauds, IIRC). There's definitely some bullshit here, we can all get a whiff of it now and then. However he himself is a man going his own way. Enjoy the Decline, can't get a message plainer'n that one!
Vox Day had his rant about MGTOW being of low socio-sexual rank who should pull their heads out of their asses and help prop up civilization. Yet civilization as a whole has elected to throw 50+% of it's married men under the bus - why should people keep propping that up? He himself split from America and went to Italy and his Spacebunny. A clear message of going his own way and NOT propping up the civilization where he was born. (At least I think he was born in America.)
And now there's this guy, going on about how getting self-validation by going and doing your own stuff makes you attractive to women. According to him there's a catch though, primarily amongst MGTOW men:
There’s a caveat however, and this is where the MGTOW go wrong in the main part – they carry with them a heart full of bitterness and resentment towards women, for all the times their “best friend” game was rejected, for all the times they were passed over in favour of the jerk, even though “they know they’re better than him”.
“Going your own way” is only attractive to women when you’ve already got a handle on game, social dynamics and female socio-sexual psychology, and you’ve got some good reference experiences behind you of getting with some decent quality girls.
Quitting a game because you are losing is the worst kind of sportsmanship. Retiring near the top of your game to pursue more rewarding options is an entirely different kettle of fish.He's got some stuff right, and eventually you get over the bitterness and shit. Like the 5 stages of coping, it's gotta be worked through: Denial, Anger, Bargaining, Depression, Acceptance. Anyone who can just snap their fingers and go "I'm done!" is one of the biggest fuckin' liars on the planet, and it takes every person their own time and passage through the shit to a place of acceptance and moving on.
I'm asking myself here: What's with the shaming language? Why the broadbrushing of all MGTOW as leaving because they're losing? (IE they're losers.) Huh? These guys aren't hurting you, so why this?
So I read down the comments - both for and against MGTOW, etc - and run across this from the author in a reply to one of his commentors:
Can you honestly tell me these women who are interested in you are of genuinely high quality? Are you beating away feminine, sweet, young hot women with a stick every time you venture out?All of a sudden it seems to click. It's the old PUA obsession of socio-sexual ranks. If you aren't going out chasing hot young sexy slim chicks, you're a looooser. Therefore I can and will shit on you.
I've already stated my opinion that PUA Is Broken and the reasoning behind that opinion. I will add to that:
1/ women who frequent dance-lessons are treating them solely as a dating/fucking pool (observations of both Captain Capitalism and myself)
2/ women who frequent bars are skanks, sluts, and whores (non-feminine to an extreme - or did the metal in the tongue, face, belly-button, nipples and clit go unnoticed? how about the tats?)
3/ women who frequent bars are good-time girls (looking for a good time, not a long time - which is what a lot of the younger set state explicitly, I've heard 'em)
4/ men who frequent bars are good-time guys (PUAs and naturally attractive guys looking for some fun, and thirsty guys who sometimes get lucky)
So which part of #1-3 equates to "feminine, sweet, hot young women" of "genuinely high quality"? Further, what part of #4 equates to "genuinely high quality man"?
It gets better. I've not yet seen one PUA site state explicitly: "This is where you can find feminine, sweet, hot young women by the boatload in the Western world." I have seen them state that if you're getting 10% of your advances accepted then you're batting *way* above average. Kudo's to you guys for telling the truth there. I believe that you guys state it's more like a 1-5% average, depending upon various factors (ie skill and practice).
So lets do the reality-check/math here, the cost-benefit analysis:
* if you go out 3 nights a week you're probably spending $100+ on drinks for yourself
* each night you might run across 10 girls who you consider acceptable
* but you ran across 5 of them prior and they already said no
* so there are 5 girls who you consider acceptable that might say yes
* given a 5% chance (you suave man you) 1 girl in 20 will say yes
* she takes 4 nights on average to find, more likely a couple weeks (old faces showing up again)
* you fuck her two or three times, maybe ten times, then it goes sour - repeat process
* over 50 weeks
* you might get 25 girls of acceptable quality
* costing you $5k and quite some personal time (especially if you're a "go to" man in certain bars)
Or you could get 25 guaranteed-hot hookers at $200 for an hour each - $5k total for the year - with less hassle and earbashing and female bullshit to deal with. Plus your time and energy is used elsewhere. For fuck's sake, you're looking amongst slags, sluts, and whores anyway! Just short-circuit the fuckin' process! There's an old saying about women in bars: "You can't turn a whore into a housewife." That's because they're low quality.
Or you can do your own thing and let them come to you ($1k total for the year). They show up if you're at least minimally social. You can choose to pick 'em up off the table - or not.
So this, again, seems to be another mindset out there - this time amongst the PUA community [Ed. Not necessarily the PUA community. - BPS], or the non-MGTOW part of the Manosphere. The mindset is that you should be out there chasing these sluts and learning to jump through the hoops that they throw your way. Do these guys realize how they are lying to themselves about the quality of women that they are searching through? Or is this another mental disconnect, like how women lie to themselves?
So now we're back full-circle. The problem appears to be that the general MGTOW community does not conform to the expected mindset of the general Manosphere community (aka the PUAs [Ed. Not the PUAs - it seems to be coming from the Christian or Churchian corner. - BPS]). It might even be a case that they feel threatened or their feelings are hurt. So they reflexively pull out the shaming language to try and push us back into line.
Sure, you'll piss off the ones newer to MGTOW or the fakes. There's gonna be short-tempered ones out here too. Some of us sure as fuckin' shit ain't all the way through the stages of coping. More power and yucks to you for sticking the knife into some poor motherfucker and making him hurt more'n he already is. (To be plain, that was deliberate passive-aggressive shaming language aimed at the idiots who do that sorta thing - now fuck off you pathetic assmuncher trolls.)
Everyone has their own fuckin' path to follow. You can pull out your path and tout it to the skies. You can shit on every other path out there. Go ahead.
In the end the Manosphere is supposed to have the high ideals of trying to help other men through the shittiest patch of their fuckin' lives. Tryin' to give them some kind of hope that there's something worthwhile for them after they've imploded (frivorce) or never started (incel and so-called Gammas wanting to change and similar poor bastards). So someone being a complete cunt about someone else that they don't agree with doesn't help none.
Oh yes. I have shat on the PUA community twice now. I've at least attempted to show my reasoning why. If you read that, decide to disregard it, and go down the route of the PUA: more power to you. At least you're fuckin' doing something other than laying on the couch, staring at the ceiling and feeling sorry for yourself. May your notch-count of hot chicks grow high.
At least the few PUAs who read these ramblings of mine don't pay to read 'em. It's all free, to be read or left in the dust, as you choose.
Tequila - out.
Well reasoned mate. Cheers.ReplyDelete
The MGTOW dont want anything to do with women because theyre bitter, most MGTOW have figured out the truth about women really work & cant be fuckedReplyDelete
Most PUA's support MGTOW, Krauser supports MGTOW, most PUA's who dont are old school & dont understand the issues ie. Roosh
A PUA who doesnt incorporate mra or mgtow is delusional
Vox Day is a jew prostating christian, of course he hates anything not benefitting christian shit, Vox Day isnt a PUA anyway ... lmao
Vox Days a pussified soccer dad just like Dalrock, W.F Price
Again MGTOW arent bitter theyve figured out how women work, PUA's pump & dump or run soft harems, as well as MGTOW
I see MGTOW as PUA lite, same philosophy as PUA but dont take advantage of slutty brainwashed by feminism women
MGTOW is the ideal state for PUA, dont give a shit about women, do your own thing, have an abundance mentality, be the prize, let them do the chasing
Know the dangers of women & how women use society to screw you over, social intelligence in a nutshell
Thinking about it, you're right: all the PUA espouse doing MGTOW stuff (self-improvement and doing what *you* want). Every single one, I can't think of an exception. Even where the eye-to-eye focus is different, they don't say to do it solely because of women: that's simply a fringe benefit and they make it plain.Delete
Vox not being a PUA - again you're right. He more exemplifies MGTOW than PUA, with a heavy focus on theoretical stuff like his stratifying socio-sexual ranking system. In many ways his blog is like this one, pointing out the shit that goes on.
MGTOW being PUA-lite: I had to laugh (in agreement). I suppose in a way we are, with our shields and distance being our filter that keep out the types of women we have no desire to associate with. Scratch through her skin to find the ugly, because the ugly goes to the bone.
Thanks for the thoughts, always to get another perspective and other ideas. Otherwise we might end up with our thoughts set permanently into a damn weird-looking pattern.
Thinking about it, the stuff I quoted was from a Christian blogger. Like Vox and Dalrock, though a different one - is there something about looking at women and knowing how shit 99+% of them are that is offensive to Christians? Or the religious in general? Is this some form of Christian White Knighting? Like Born Again Virgins who have "changed" upon rediscovering religion?Delete
"Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you." Matthew 7:1. If God or the Flying Spaghetti Monster decide to judge me, that's fine. In the end it comes down to what I can live with while I'm wandering around this mortal coil.
I still have the right to look at someone and judge if they are worth being around. Just as they have the right to be a drug-addict who attempts to beg/borrow/steal money from everyone to support their habit. Likewise thieves who have the right to rob a store without getting shot.
"Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven." Luke 6:37. Sounds like a recipe to be taken advantage of by the unscrupulous. It also sounds very feminized, which I believe that a shitload of people in the Manosphere have noted - and why they often use words like "Churchianity" to describe modern Christianity.
http://therationalmale.com/2015/02/15/end-of-life-issues/#comment-88787 - some commentators at Rollo's seem pragmatic enough to recognize that there is no 'one size' solution that 'fits all'.Delete
Christianity is enslavement of men to women & the church, which is why they cant stand men knowing the truth about women & mgtowDelete
They cant stand pua's alot more then mgtow lmao ... because pua's allow accss to women without spending millions of cash through marriage, PUA bypasses the enslavement of men just for sex
This is why christians promote hate of male sexuality, chastity & force men into enforced celibates
Feminism is created by christians, not marxists or leftists because christianity is owned & run by Rome ie the vatican church
The truth no one in the manosphere will tell you, feminism is based on Roman Slave Law, feminim is an ancient system of slavery used by egyptians & rome to enslave millions of men
Feminism is merely an ancient form of slavery modernised
Check out alex jones vid, he explains how slave masters used women to control men in rome & cotton fields
The fact feminism is based on Roman slave law proves feminism is created by christians ...
I've chucked a few extra comments into the original post in bold. Nothing has been rewritten, just extras added.ReplyDelete