Wednesday, 25 February 2015

My View of MGTOW vs MRA

I had a wander over to A Voice for Manginas to have a check of what might be going on in the Men's Rights Movement. It turns out that some drongo troll decided that they were gonna expose the identity of a couple of fairly prominent MGTOW guys: Stardusk and Barbarossaaaa. The mess somehow ended up at Paul Elam's feet. He threw out a "not me" post - which I believe, 'cause why would he bother, he has enough shit on his plate running his site and activism and stuff already:

Doxing MGTOW Incident Unleashes MGTOW+ Fury at AVfM

Hmmm. Interesting.

It seems to me that going from "this one fucktard did this" to saying "AVfM (and all MHRA's) is involved" is a massive stretch of imagination from somebody. I'm not sure who did it, and I care so tremendously much that I can't be arsed trying to figure out where that lot came from and what it's all about. It's basically another tempest in a teapot that'll blow over eventually.

It did make me think, though. I vaguely remember seeing references to AVfM having a love-hate relationship with the MGTOW's, though I'm not certain of where I read that. It also made me wonder about the Christian/Churchian weirdness going on with regard to despising MGTOW. I have what I think may be the reason for the head-butting. It effectively comes down to basic ideological value differences.

To illustrate:

The current system of female to male interaction (marriage) has the following mentality: "You will obey or you will be forced to obey". Which is of course no choice at all for married men. End result: you will obey, either fuckin' way. Slavery.

MGTOW on the other hand reverse this system into a male to female interaction with the following mentality: "Obey or fuck off". Which is of course a real choice for any woman. They want to hang around a MGTOW, they can obey - or fuck off. End result: they actually have a choice, unlike the female to male interaction of marriage and no choice. Freedom.

(Note that any man who goes into marriage these days is instantly forced into the female to male interaction. A mans' only real choices these days are: bachelor or marriage, freedom or slavery. So logically, no married man can ever be a MGTOW because he has no power or choices - she is the one with all the power and choices. You poor bastards are toast, I hope you can get out of it with minimal damage.)

Which shines a light onto the basic ideological differences between MRAs (including MHRAs like AVfM) and MGTOWs:

* MRAs still believe in the system of marriage etc and are asking the government (and society) to please tweak things to make them fairer for men


* MGTOWs recognize the system is fundamentally broken, the government is kissing the pussy of the strong empowered womyn, and nobody is gonna do shit to change things because that'd derail the gravy-train and piss off all the female voters who let the government hogs get their snouts into the trough

So what's happening is one segment of women's slaves are getting all agitated and throwing a hangi (a big-ass dinner party) for each other and pleading with their slavemasters to please, please, please be nicer and fairer to them. While another segment of women's slaves is quietly putting a few things into a backpack and slipping off the plantation into the darkness of the night, walking along the moonlit trails to see where the things go, and wondering if there's some nice sights and good fishing on the way.

Segment One of the slaves is looking aghast at Segment Two and going "you're cool guys come back, fucking bastard runaways, we really need you, goddamn fucking deserters, we love you" etc like some bipolar fucked-up mess. Segment Two of the slaves is looking back with vague bemusement at Segment One and thinking "what the fuck is wrong with you, begging your masters to make your burden easier - come join me catching fish".

So there, now, I've just taken a steaming dump all over the entire mentality of the MRA/MHRA movement. Also the Churchians because they also believe that the system as-is can be fixed. And anyone else who basically thinks that someone with power is going to fuckin' take pity on them and give them a break. Especially given that Team Womyn™ like, like, like it the way things are: they can have their kiddies, frivorce with cash and prizes, fuck-a-da bad-boys, and be supported by their slave-men.

They're creaming it.

This lot is also why I tend to refer to A Voice for Men as "A Voice for Mangina's" - because they're trying to "ask nicely" and "raise awareness" (ie whining, bitching and nagging like women do). The problem is that the assholes they're trying to ask nicely don't give a damn because Team Womyn™ is giving them a green light to go whole hog at the trough. Mama and her ass-kissing mangina toady's have spoken and das guberment has listened and obeyed.

Whereas the MGTOWers are just looking at it, realizing it's not gonna get fixed 'cause Team Womyn™ doesn't want it fixed, and saying "fuck this bullshit I'm gonna go fish". Whether or not a woman shows up is cool: obey or fuck off.

I would say that there are probably irreconcilable differences between the two mentalities. Nobody's gonna be changing the MGTOWs, they've (rationally) chosen their path. Nobody's gonna be changing the MRAs, they still have the (irrational) hope that their path can be fixed.

Now bugger off and let me fish - and think - in peace.


  1. You could say MGTOW, are very Zen about it all, removing themselves from the equation and being detached. In the West, we can deal with try hards, as they are still invested......but the Zen mind set, not so much.

    I'm still thinking about it all, but they seem to be very Ghandian, whilst the MRA's are like the Dalai Lama. And we know which personality had the most effect on change.

    MGTOW have just gone on strike.

    I think it's time I take sides and go fishing......

    1. I would not say Zen-like, in that we are men - some might strive for that level of placidity in their lives, it's probably not a focus of the majority. More a case of reducing the bullshit in their lives. I find myself having a very low tolerance for bullshit.

      Strike, yes. Sides, well, if there is any such thing when you're doing your own thing. Enjoy the fishing.

  2. The interesting thing is how word meanings have been feminized. I was thinking Zen Samauri.

    What the MRA do not realize is the term "strategic withdrawal", or just running away. All this to create space to fight back. This I believe, is one of the 48 laws of power.

    Just ask the Russians, it worked against the French and Germans. Non engagement, is engagement, which is strength, which is Zen.

    The whole point is that the MRA's are scared of this tactic, as are women, and also that they will succeed where they are failing.

    I'm a bit grumpy and over it, but MGTOW is not about women. Yes, the matriarchy and narcicists want it to be, but it's about self determination. Like India wanted from Britain. Women are jet the straw that breaks the camel's back.

    I would love to see a real discussion without mentioning women. We can all see what they're like, your blog is excellent at showing their true colours.

    I think we are scared to take the next logical step. I wrote on another blog about this, that history will record the MGTOW as hero's, much like the civil rights activists were reviled in their time, but honored now.

    1. Thinking about it, I realize that I know bumpkis about Zen beyond what could be stated as "common thought" - ie probably complete lies that were absorbed from Martial Arts movies. So that would be my mistake in thinking and not that the meaning of the word has been altered. Interesting, I think that another commentor (see a more recent post) might have a similar problem regarding preconceived ideas.

      The philosophy of non-participation acting as a scorched-earth policy is a powerful one, if you can implement it. Which MGTOW appear to be doing, no matter how in-cohesively. If you can destroy something (via non-participation) you effectively control it. Just look at the massive demographic decline in Japan.

      I admit to still being focused on trying to understand women. I think that most of the men around here are. Our damnation is that we do kinda like them still, at least the pretty surface. Which makes the horror-story of the slow social trainwreck even more tragic, in that we can't quite yet pull our eyes away from the mess.

      Like reading a Stephen King novel, watching a horror movie, or gawking at the car accident as we drive past. We want to see the blood and bodies. It seems to be in people's nature.

      Originally I figured that this blog would simply be showing the nastiness that I see around, in what I thought would be my slow process towards going PUA. Instead I find myself overall repulsed at the poison and wanting very little to do with women as I peer further down the rabbit-hole. Who knows, I might end up going full ghost and shuttering this blog, leaving it up for whoever in the future finds it of use.

      I'm not sure if MGTOW could be considered heroes in the conventional sense. Imagine the future looking back on this period and saying: "Thank GOD for those MGTOW lunatics. They helped cut down the world population before it exploded and caused an ecological catastrophe." (That's meant to be black humor, though it probably doesn't come through very well.)

      Self-determination is probably our ideal. Unapologetic. I'd like to hear more of your thoughts. Certainly there are many social ills in our society. We are simply bombarded with so much of one type of social ill, it would be worthwhile to think about other types as well.